What a poisonous little article.......
Dec. 6th, 2006 02:22 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
patgundThree on a match can be dangerous
Problem #1 - "In my clinical practice, I've found that when people swing there is usually a problem. Sharing sex with multiple partners is seldom an offshoot of a healthy relationship."
The couples she sees are in trouble for a variety of reasons. So she's not seeing any relationship, closed, open, mono, poly, swinging, whatever, in a healthy state.
Problem #2 - "Threesome fantasies feed directly into male evolutionary urgings, since men are genetically predisposed to spread their seed and commune with as many fertile females as possible. So let's let them off the hook and help them focus on healthy sexual pursuits."
Translation - "The poor things can't think with anything but their gentials, so let's give them that excuse for being enslaved by all that testosterone".
Problem #3 - "Men tend to be more lustful, in life and in their fantasies. They frequently objectify the objects of their fantasy, and focus on physical attributes. Women muse more about seduction, setting and emotion."
Funny, I'm a big thinker on subjects like seduction, setting, and the emotional context and subtext involved. And last time I checked, I was male.
Problem #4 - "Polyamory, that pie-in-the-sky idea that you can love and bed more than one person at a time, ultimately doesn't work. Rather, it's a much better idea to find ways to spice up your sex life a deux.
Share appropriate fantasies that feature your partner as the main event. Break out the video camera and erase the tape afterward. Have sex in a public bathroom. Share some self-love, that most taboo of activities, in front of each other. That way you get the thrill of a little kinkiness without having to invite anybody else into your bed."
Excuse me, she suggests that breaking the law and having sex in a public restroom is a better option than having two (or more) loving relationships??? Dare I ask why??
And "Self-love" being "that most taboo of activities"??? Please. Rubber-clad penguins in bondage is taboo, "self-love" is, at worse, only very mildly kinky.
As for "pie-in-the-sky", yes, Poly relationships take work. Newsflash, EVERY relationship, even the one you have with yourself, takes work.
She's making generalizations based on a skewed represenative sample. If I tried that in college, the paper would have (rightly so) gotten a D or F.
Problem #1 - "In my clinical practice, I've found that when people swing there is usually a problem. Sharing sex with multiple partners is seldom an offshoot of a healthy relationship."
The couples she sees are in trouble for a variety of reasons. So she's not seeing any relationship, closed, open, mono, poly, swinging, whatever, in a healthy state.
Problem #2 - "Threesome fantasies feed directly into male evolutionary urgings, since men are genetically predisposed to spread their seed and commune with as many fertile females as possible. So let's let them off the hook and help them focus on healthy sexual pursuits."
Translation - "The poor things can't think with anything but their gentials, so let's give them that excuse for being enslaved by all that testosterone".
Problem #3 - "Men tend to be more lustful, in life and in their fantasies. They frequently objectify the objects of their fantasy, and focus on physical attributes. Women muse more about seduction, setting and emotion."
Funny, I'm a big thinker on subjects like seduction, setting, and the emotional context and subtext involved. And last time I checked, I was male.
Problem #4 - "Polyamory, that pie-in-the-sky idea that you can love and bed more than one person at a time, ultimately doesn't work. Rather, it's a much better idea to find ways to spice up your sex life a deux.
Share appropriate fantasies that feature your partner as the main event. Break out the video camera and erase the tape afterward. Have sex in a public bathroom. Share some self-love, that most taboo of activities, in front of each other. That way you get the thrill of a little kinkiness without having to invite anybody else into your bed."
Excuse me, she suggests that breaking the law and having sex in a public restroom is a better option than having two (or more) loving relationships??? Dare I ask why??
And "Self-love" being "that most taboo of activities"??? Please. Rubber-clad penguins in bondage is taboo, "self-love" is, at worse, only very mildly kinky.
As for "pie-in-the-sky", yes, Poly relationships take work. Newsflash, EVERY relationship, even the one you have with yourself, takes work.
She's making generalizations based on a skewed represenative sample. If I tried that in college, the paper would have (rightly so) gotten a D or F.
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Another of her "points"
Date: 2006-12-06 10:28 pm (UTC)Threesomes, as they are less charmingly called, can be STD-riddled, jealousy-filled excursions that I don't recommend most couples take.
She's ok with acting out D/s fantasies but threesomes are right out. Besides what if the threesome is HER idea? And it may be MMF not just MFF.
She needs a flogging.
no subject
Date: 2006-12-06 10:29 pm (UTC)Statistically speaking, how many monogamous relationships "ultimately work"? I'd be willing to guess that the percentages are close to those of polyamory.
Share some self-love, that most taboo of activities, in front of each other.
THAT's the "most taboo", huh? What is she, new to the Internet?
no subject
Date: 2006-12-06 11:38 pm (UTC)The problem here, however, is that IN YOUR CLINICAL PRACTICE, how often do satisfied couples, trios, poly-involved parties come to you for relationship issues? If you're basing your conclusions on what you've seen come through your office door, no wonder you're finding so many problems with polyamory and the people who practice it - bringing ANYONE into one's sex life is never simple, even if it's a monogomous situation.
When people swing in order to "improve" their own relationship, there's likely issues involved that go back long before somebody's desire to fool around came up.
And a question - how is masturbation "that most taboo of activities" so... taboo? After all, anyone who claims they don't masturbate will also deny they pick their noses. They lie, and neither activity is shameful nor taboo, just something to be kept discreet.
Unless you have severe sexual hangups, in which case, you need to see a therapist.
no subject
Date: 2006-12-07 01:08 am (UTC)I wonder how many of these "erased tapes" get on the internet? ;)
Yeah, masturbation was taboo...in grade school. Now I think having sex with your mom's goldfish while eating you brother's scat would rate #257 on Google's "most taboo" list.
Pie-in-the-sky
Date: 2006-12-07 02:06 am (UTC)Life happens.
The smart people catch on to the joke and enjoy the ride.
My letter to her, Part I
Date: 2006-12-08 08:55 am (UTC)Doctor,
"Three on a match" was a World War II warning to soldiers about shielding their cigarettes at night. It was a reminder of what an enemy sniper could do if they had such a light source for such a brief period of time. So, yes, I'd have to agree that "three on a match" can be dangerous. Especially if you happen to be one of the three around that lit match. However, you have made a few other statements that lend themselves to re-examination.
"In my clinical practice, I've found that when people swing there is usually a problem. Sharing sex with multiple partners is seldom an offshoot of a healthy relationship."
Have you considered that by the nature of your function, you are NOT going to see healthy examples of polyamorous relationships? You are automatically filtering out people who DON'T have problems, but appear to be concluding that because no healthy polyamorous relationship visits your office, there aren't any.
To paraphrase you slightly, I think we can all see the fallacy (no pun intended) in that argument.
"What sounds like good fun sexually can be very different in the real world of relationships. Bringing a third person into your sex life is never simple. There is the risk of jealousy, feelings of inferiority by virtue of comparison, and losing the intimacy that, up to that point, only you and your partner have shared."
That's as true for long-term relationships (polyamory) as it is one night stands (swinging). For the most part, it's also true of ordinary "binary" marriages, be they same-sex or heterosexual marriages. There's the loss of intimacy with one's old friends one used to hang out with now that one is married. There's the jealousy between one's friends and one's spouse, each accusing one of spending more time with the other. There are the nearly inevitable comparisons, which can get quite invidious.
Given that most people don't understand that all relationships require work to actually stay alive, it's not surprising that you'd recommend against a type of relationship that arguably requires even more work and possibly more maturity than a simpler binary relationship. In a world where it is not uncommon for the bride's mother to advise her daughter on her wedding day "If this one doesn't work out, you can always try again", who wants to be told that a relationship, any relationship, requires genuine work?
My letter to her, Part II
Date: 2006-12-08 08:56 am (UTC)"Threesomes, as they are less charmingly called, can be STD-riddled, jealousy-filled excursions that I don't recommend most couples take."
Here we're in agreement: polyamory isn't for everyone, just as marriage itself isn't for everyone. Not everyone has the maturity and the selflessness to be in a relationship, regardless of the number.
"Threesome fantasies feed directly into male evolutionary urgings, since men are genetically predisposed to spread their seed and commune with as many fertile females as possible. So let's let them off the hook and help them focus on healthy sexual pursuits."
Given that it's an evolutionary urge, that implies that it already IS a healthy sexual pursuit. However, I'm not fully prepared to argue that we make monogamy illegal, just yet. Nor am I prepared to argue in favor of the implication of that statement, that men therefore have little actual control over their urges. If that were true, men would never adopt another man's children, risk their lives for the sake of others, or stay married to one woman all their lives. After all, there are strong evolutionary urges against all of those things, yet men overcome them routinely, with relatively little fanfare.
"How are you going to find a cache of willing participants to keep the fantasy fires burning?"
Yes, that is a problem with polyamory and swinging. The answer, just as for singles, is specialty dating groups. It's not easy for anyone to find willing participants, as you put it. The lives we lead are hectic, and sometimes leave little time for some of the subtler necessities of life, such as the company of others. That it is difficult, however, is a poor reason to scratch it off the list. Space exploration is difficult, too, and far more dangerous and costly than simply finding compatible mates. Wisely, we haven't scratched that off the list (yet), either.
I submit the pressure for or against polyamory is a purely cultural one, not a psychological one, based on the several polyamorous cultures in the world. That being the case, to argue against polyamory or its shorter-lived cousin, swinging, without adequate clinical proof of harm is to simply treat the symptoms of your troubled patients, and not the root problem.
Respectfully,
John A. Whiting